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	<title>Comments on: UK migrants to NZ &#8211; a good knowledge of local building issues is vital</title>
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	<link>http://unconditional.co.nz/blog/uk-migrants-to-nz-a-good-knowledge-of-local-building-issues-is-vital/</link>
	<description>What&#039;s really going on in realestate</description>
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		<title>By: Alistair Helm</title>
		<link>http://unconditional.co.nz/blog/uk-migrants-to-nz-a-good-knowledge-of-local-building-issues-is-vital/comment-page-1/#comment-810</link>
		<dc:creator>Alistair Helm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unconditional.co.nz/blog/?p=372#comment-810</guid>
		<description>Sebastian,

Really appreciate you taking the time to share these observations. I think your final sentence is appropriate, we should take a pride in the NZ housing industry - I have personally worked in it for 3 years and have a lot of respect for the excellent skilled individuals I met and had dealings with during that time.

I am surprised by your comment stating that the only person you can trust is a surveyor. I think that is a little too much of a generalisation - sure they are by the role they play largely impartial; however to tar all of the others as being untrustworthy is unfair and far from the truth.

I would also contend with your assertion that many people sell houses in need of renovation - many people sell many houses for any number of reasons. Whilst I would have no idea what the proportion is, I would say selling because a house needs renovation is potentially very low - more likely many people sell when the renovations (make-over) is done. Now you could be right to question the quality of comprehensiveness of that work!

It is interesting your reference to UK and Sweden, two countries I have lived in and can attest to the quality of house building there and equally would say UK building is in general only OK, much like NZ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sebastian,</p>
<p>Really appreciate you taking the time to share these observations. I think your final sentence is appropriate, we should take a pride in the NZ housing industry &#8211; I have personally worked in it for 3 years and have a lot of respect for the excellent skilled individuals I met and had dealings with during that time.</p>
<p>I am surprised by your comment stating that the only person you can trust is a surveyor. I think that is a little too much of a generalisation &#8211; sure they are by the role they play largely impartial; however to tar all of the others as being untrustworthy is unfair and far from the truth.</p>
<p>I would also contend with your assertion that many people sell houses in need of renovation &#8211; many people sell many houses for any number of reasons. Whilst I would have no idea what the proportion is, I would say selling because a house needs renovation is potentially very low &#8211; more likely many people sell when the renovations (make-over) is done. Now you could be right to question the quality of comprehensiveness of that work!</p>
<p>It is interesting your reference to UK and Sweden, two countries I have lived in and can attest to the quality of house building there and equally would say UK building is in general only OK, much like NZ.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://unconditional.co.nz/blog/uk-migrants-to-nz-a-good-knowledge-of-local-building-issues-is-vital/comment-page-1/#comment-809</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unconditional.co.nz/blog/?p=372#comment-809</guid>
		<description>Alistair says: &quot;a good knowledge of local building issues is vital&quot;.
You do not face the full implications when you say that.  Let me paraphrase:

&quot;Before buying a house in New Zealand it is necessary to study local construction techniques over the last century... become a surveyor first... because you cannot trust builders, local government, surveyors and estate agents to do their jobs competently or honestly.&quot;

If you don&#039;t do that you run the risk of missing design and construction flaws left by the &#039;professionals&#039;.  It is a sad testament to the building industry&#039;s incompetence that so many people feel that is necessary.  It is also patently impossible: identifying water ingress isn&#039;t a job for which the public should have to become amateur sleuths.  Temporary masking of problems during dry summer months, when most sales are conducted, is easy.

The Guardian article in the UK was advice to buyers.  Buyers are investigating properties that are for sale.  What proportion of the properties for sale suffer from construction problems?  What we can be sure of is that it is a lot higher than the proportion of problematic houses relative to housing stock as a whole.

It is the nature of any market for many people to sell buildings in need of renovation... or those causing disappointment... in the same way that you would sell a car you were unhappy with.  I would not be at all surprised if the word plague is wholly appropriate for the percentage of poorly made houses on the housing market in NZ.

Lastly, this catastrophe didn&#039;t come out of nowhere.  Building cultures are established over a long time.  If this kind of thing is taking place in NZ you can be sure that there has been a lot more poor quality construction and maintenance occurring over quite some time.  It is a shame to learn that NZ is being held to Britain&#039;s example when the British building industry is  itself infamous!

In 1988 Margaret Thatcher raised building regulation standards in the UK to levels that approximated those current in Sweden in the 1930s!

It&#039;s time for a little professional pride in the NZ housing industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alistair says: &#8220;a good knowledge of local building issues is vital&#8221;.<br />
You do not face the full implications when you say that.  Let me paraphrase:</p>
<p>&#8220;Before buying a house in New Zealand it is necessary to study local construction techniques over the last century&#8230; become a surveyor first&#8230; because you cannot trust builders, local government, surveyors and estate agents to do their jobs competently or honestly.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t do that you run the risk of missing design and construction flaws left by the &#8216;professionals&#8217;.  It is a sad testament to the building industry&#8217;s incompetence that so many people feel that is necessary.  It is also patently impossible: identifying water ingress isn&#8217;t a job for which the public should have to become amateur sleuths.  Temporary masking of problems during dry summer months, when most sales are conducted, is easy.</p>
<p>The Guardian article in the UK was advice to buyers.  Buyers are investigating properties that are for sale.  What proportion of the properties for sale suffer from construction problems?  What we can be sure of is that it is a lot higher than the proportion of problematic houses relative to housing stock as a whole.</p>
<p>It is the nature of any market for many people to sell buildings in need of renovation&#8230; or those causing disappointment&#8230; in the same way that you would sell a car you were unhappy with.  I would not be at all surprised if the word plague is wholly appropriate for the percentage of poorly made houses on the housing market in NZ.</p>
<p>Lastly, this catastrophe didn&#8217;t come out of nowhere.  Building cultures are established over a long time.  If this kind of thing is taking place in NZ you can be sure that there has been a lot more poor quality construction and maintenance occurring over quite some time.  It is a shame to learn that NZ is being held to Britain&#8217;s example when the British building industry is  itself infamous!</p>
<p>In 1988 Margaret Thatcher raised building regulation standards in the UK to levels that approximated those current in Sweden in the 1930s!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s time for a little professional pride in the NZ housing industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Alistair Helm</title>
		<link>http://unconditional.co.nz/blog/uk-migrants-to-nz-a-good-knowledge-of-local-building-issues-is-vital/comment-page-1/#comment-807</link>
		<dc:creator>Alistair Helm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unconditional.co.nz/blog/?p=372#comment-807</guid>
		<description>Kent,

Thanks for taking the time to share these thoughts and views. I think the title of the blog post is most relevant - a good knowledge of local building issues is vital - I think that message is clear, there is always a buyer beware requirement for any property purchase in any country.

The UK article used the phrase &quot;plague&quot; as in &quot;plague of locusts&quot; which implies a very high percentage. NZ has a housing stock of 1.6 million of which around 200,000 were built during the period when regulations and practices by some builders / architects etc were suspect, that means 1.4 million properties were not built in that period - they represent 88% of all homes.

The issue is serious and all in NZ see it as serious - I did not mean to be-little the issue.

I completely concur that the blame lies with a combination of architects, manufacturers, builders, subbies, as well as local authority inspectors.

We could dwell on the why, the problem is it happened. The issue is (1) we are all now paying for it one way or another - taxes and rates and insurance premiums and (2) Buyers need to be aware - for that reason I think your comments add to the better understanding and appreciation of the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent,</p>
<p>Thanks for taking the time to share these thoughts and views. I think the title of the blog post is most relevant &#8211; a good knowledge of local building issues is vital &#8211; I think that message is clear, there is always a buyer beware requirement for any property purchase in any country.</p>
<p>The UK article used the phrase &#8220;plague&#8221; as in &#8220;plague of locusts&#8221; which implies a very high percentage. NZ has a housing stock of 1.6 million of which around 200,000 were built during the period when regulations and practices by some builders / architects etc were suspect, that means 1.4 million properties were not built in that period &#8211; they represent 88% of all homes.</p>
<p>The issue is serious and all in NZ see it as serious &#8211; I did not mean to be-little the issue.</p>
<p>I completely concur that the blame lies with a combination of architects, manufacturers, builders, subbies, as well as local authority inspectors.</p>
<p>We could dwell on the why, the problem is it happened. The issue is (1) we are all now paying for it one way or another &#8211; taxes and rates and insurance premiums and (2) Buyers need to be aware &#8211; for that reason I think your comments add to the better understanding and appreciation of the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://unconditional.co.nz/blog/uk-migrants-to-nz-a-good-knowledge-of-local-building-issues-is-vital/comment-page-1/#comment-808</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unconditional.co.nz/blog/?p=372#comment-808</guid>
		<description>I have to completely contradict your reply. I absolutely think UK (or any other foreign) buyers should be made aware of the issues in NZ and the article in UK should have gone much further. 10,000 leaky buildings - who are you kidding, even if your figure was true ( I suspect it is at least 5 times this figure )but what made me laugh is the accepting attitude you have surely it&#039;s 10,000 too many isn&#039;t it - why are you making excuses for it? If Canada has the problem then its ok for NZ to have the same problem - that&#039;s ok then.
You think treated pine stops buidings leak - that was another corker comment - have you seen rotten treated pine....I certainly have on 2 and 3 year old houses....you have to look at the design and the flashings thats where the leaks are - fundamentals are wrong.
Houses that are hundreds of years old in the UK don&#039;t leak like 10 year old houses do here. It is a lottery here with the generally shoddy building standards, based on &#039;faddy&#039; new materials pushed by builders merchants and marketing companies and not getting the basics right because some Architect wants to expand his ego and try something new. Who puts a plastic/rubber roof on a 2 million dollar house........get real. The roof is the most important part of a house..duhhhh. There are roofs on million dollar houses being roofed in NZ with materials that the industry in UK has banned - house Insurance companies won&#039;t insure them - what does that say?
What is even worse is the systems that should be in place to protect buyers are rubbish and are completely self-serving. Agents wanting only &#039;unconditionals&#039;, promotion of Auctions(for the same reason), building inspectors who wouldn&#039;t spot a leaky home if they tried(notice I used the word wouldn&#039;t and not couldn&#039;t anything for an easy buck) and Valuers who ask you what you are paying and make sure the value matches - it is slap dash. You mention building Inspectors but what do they care - if they don&#039;t spot a problem they are not liable in any shape or form. So what is the incentive for them to do a good job, the most you can sue them for is to get your money back ......not much compensation when you have a $ 400,000 investment that is going to cost you $ 100,000 to repair.
Oh yes this is the final and ultimate self serving irony those same builders who built the house badly in the first place get to charge you another 100k to fix the problems LOL.

UK Buyers beware be very aware....., what you read in that artical its worse far far worse I can assure you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to completely contradict your reply. I absolutely think UK (or any other foreign) buyers should be made aware of the issues in NZ and the article in UK should have gone much further. 10,000 leaky buildings &#8211; who are you kidding, even if your figure was true ( I suspect it is at least 5 times this figure )but what made me laugh is the accepting attitude you have surely it&#8217;s 10,000 too many isn&#8217;t it &#8211; why are you making excuses for it? If Canada has the problem then its ok for NZ to have the same problem &#8211; that&#8217;s ok then.<br />
You think treated pine stops buidings leak &#8211; that was another corker comment &#8211; have you seen rotten treated pine&#8230;.I certainly have on 2 and 3 year old houses&#8230;.you have to look at the design and the flashings thats where the leaks are &#8211; fundamentals are wrong.<br />
Houses that are hundreds of years old in the UK don&#8217;t leak like 10 year old houses do here. It is a lottery here with the generally shoddy building standards, based on &#8216;faddy&#8217; new materials pushed by builders merchants and marketing companies and not getting the basics right because some Architect wants to expand his ego and try something new. Who puts a plastic/rubber roof on a 2 million dollar house&#8230;&#8230;..get real. The roof is the most important part of a house..duhhhh. There are roofs on million dollar houses being roofed in NZ with materials that the industry in UK has banned &#8211; house Insurance companies won&#8217;t insure them &#8211; what does that say?<br />
What is even worse is the systems that should be in place to protect buyers are rubbish and are completely self-serving. Agents wanting only &#8216;unconditionals&#8217;, promotion of Auctions(for the same reason), building inspectors who wouldn&#8217;t spot a leaky home if they tried(notice I used the word wouldn&#8217;t and not couldn&#8217;t anything for an easy buck) and Valuers who ask you what you are paying and make sure the value matches &#8211; it is slap dash. You mention building Inspectors but what do they care &#8211; if they don&#8217;t spot a problem they are not liable in any shape or form. So what is the incentive for them to do a good job, the most you can sue them for is to get your money back &#8230;&#8230;not much compensation when you have a $ 400,000 investment that is going to cost you $ 100,000 to repair.<br />
Oh yes this is the final and ultimate self serving irony those same builders who built the house badly in the first place get to charge you another 100k to fix the problems LOL.</p>
<p>UK Buyers beware be very aware&#8230;.., what you read in that artical its worse far far worse I can assure you.</p>
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		<title>By: Alistair Helm</title>
		<link>http://unconditional.co.nz/blog/uk-migrants-to-nz-a-good-knowledge-of-local-building-issues-is-vital/comment-page-1/#comment-806</link>
		<dc:creator>Alistair Helm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unconditional.co.nz/blog/?p=372#comment-806</guid>
		<description>Great advice - thanks Ross</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great advice &#8211; thanks Ross</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Brader</title>
		<link>http://unconditional.co.nz/blog/uk-migrants-to-nz-a-good-knowledge-of-local-building-issues-is-vital/comment-page-1/#comment-805</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross Brader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unconditional.co.nz/blog/?p=372#comment-805</guid>
		<description>Even banks now put links on their websites like this http://www.consumerbuild.org.nz/publish/

I noticed this on a NZ Bank website:

Built to last – or a pile of problems?
Buying a home? How can you tell it’s structurally sound? Consumerbuild shows you how to spot ‘leaky home’ syndrome - and how to avoid buying into other potentially expensive repairs and maintenance problems. Before you make that offer, check out Comsumerbuild. It could save you a pile of problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even banks now put links on their websites like this <a href="http://www.consumerbuild.org.nz/publish/" rel="nofollow">http://www.consumerbuild.org.nz/publish/</a></p>
<p>I noticed this on a NZ Bank website:</p>
<p>Built to last – or a pile of problems?<br />
Buying a home? How can you tell it’s structurally sound? Consumerbuild shows you how to spot ‘leaky home’ syndrome &#8211; and how to avoid buying into other potentially expensive repairs and maintenance problems. Before you make that offer, check out Comsumerbuild. It could save you a pile of problems.</p>
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